When Do Angelfish Fry Babies Start Showing Their Colors

Kathy Potts · Feb 28, 2011

Shot this video yesterday. For those that remember the thread nearly Selective Breeding, here are some of the fry. I am amazed at the amount of color already showing up at this early in their development. Their markings also seem to be more distinctive.

So this is Romeo & Juliet'south grandchildren. They are gear up to exist bumped up to the 40 gallon and the 30 gallon tanks. Hopefully this calendar week those two tanks will become available for them.

The little tykes are enjoying this particular food for the first time. At first they didn't know what to do with information technology or what to retrieve of information technology merely they defenseless on very speedily LOL

I take ii ten gallon tanks of these little guys and dolls.
I took videos of both 10 gallon tanks and should be able to post them hither tomorrow. Not the best videos, a little on the bright side, merely gives an overall view of both tanks.

It appears that some of them may exist conveying the blushing gene. Can someone confirm this from the video?

darrellg1 · Feb 28, 2011

Kathy

I'm going to say you have some astonishing petty guys and girls there they are beautiful in that location coluoring is amazing and looking at this video now 7 times they accept the blushing gene in some of them they are truly amazing

I'm now going to attempt some selective breeding myself with an angelfish which I have searched high and low for and have non yet come up across in shops or on the earth wide web and then it should exist intresting

Kathy Potts · Feb 28, 2011

Thank you Darrell!!! So yous do call back that it is the blushing gene showing up? And not a deformity?

darrellg1 · Feb 28, 2011

Thanks Darrell!!! So yous exercise think that information technology is the blushing factor showing up? And non a deformity?

Nigh defernatly not a deformity equally I looked at your video 7 times as I was amazed by the colours they have produced. When you say defomity what makes you think that?

toosie · Feb 28, 2011

Gorgeous Angels Kathy!! Truly Gorgeous!!

Kathy Potts · Feb 28, 2011

Most defernatly non a deformity as I looked at your video seven times equally I was amazed by the colours they take produced. When you lot say defomity what makes you remember that?

I was simply wanting to make sure that information technology was the blushing gene that could be seen. I was worried that something might be wrong with them. I got Romeo and Juliet at an early age, but they didn't appear to have the blush. I have noticed on some of their before fry, mainly the solid gold ones, that they did appear to have that gene. It was however not this prominent. Equally the golds matured, the blushing disappeared. Is that also normal?

Gorgeous Angels Kathy!! Truly Gorgeous!!

Thanks toosie!!!

Thanks Ken!! It is going to be a joy to sentinel these as they grow and develop their colors. Which of grade means I get to take more photos. LOL Romeo and Juliet accept been a true treasure!!

Plumkin · February 28, 2011

wow AMAZING! I would beloved honey love to have one of your Koi babys there so cute! I could compression there blushin cheeks haha good job on raising your fry !

darrellg1 · Feb 28, 2011

I was only wanting to make sure that it was the blushing gene that could be seen. I was worried that something might be incorrect with them. I got Romeo and Juliet at an early on age, but they didn't appear to accept the chroma. I have noticed on some of their earlier fry, mainly the solid gilded ones, that they did appear to have that gene. It was however not this prominent. As the golds matured, the blushing disappeared. Is that also normal?
Thanks toosie!!!

Looking at the babies the blushing should exist there as they grow and get more predominate they volition be beauties to behold I want some

Simon Law · Feb 28, 2011

Those are definitely blushing Angelfish and not a deformity. The blushing(stripeless) gene is recessive and then you may not witness information technology on the parents. Angelfish conduct many recessive genes but similar us humans then y'all may non see those traits express themselves in the parents just if both parents bear those recessive genes then the children volition limited that trait. Were the parents of these fry related? If and then and so it is more likely y'all have enhanced their recessive traits - convenance siblings together is the most effective mode of selective convenance and creating new strains.

All blushing Angelfish(with a few exceptions) will lose their blushing cheeks as they get older when their gill plates thicken up and their colours develop over it.

Kathy Potts · Feb 28, 2011

wow AMAZING! I would beloved beloved dear to have ane of your Koi babys there then cute! I could pinch there blushin cheeks haha good job on raising your fry !

Well Plumkin, give them another month or so and if you really want i, I have finally made upwards my listen to put some up for sale. I as well have a lot of Romeo & Juliet'due south fry available now. As mentioned higher up, information technology was R & J's fry that produced these. Some I know the sex of others I do not. I have some drop dead gorgeous large koi's that I am fixing to put upward for sale. All the angels before this batch will be Romeo & Juliet's fry.

The parents to this batch were blood brother and sis.

Can someone tell me what you call the fry when produced by brother and sister?

Looking at the babies the blushing should be there as they grow and become more predominate they volition exist beauties to behold I want some

Darrell, you take that bridge built nonetheless? LOL

Those are definitely blushing Angelfish and not a deformity. The blushing(stripeless) cistron is recessive then you may not witness information technology on the parents. Angelfish carry many recessive genes merely like united states of america humans so you may not see those traits express themselves in the parents but if both parents bear those recessive genes so the children will limited that trait. Were the parents of these fry related? If and then then it is more probable y'all accept enhanced their recessive traits - breeding siblings together is the most effective way of selective breeding and creating new strains.
All blushing Angelfish(with a few exceptions) will lose their blushing cheeks equally they get older when their gill plates thicken upward and their colours develop over information technology.

I do not know if the parents are related. It is definitely a relief to observe out that this is non a deformity!!!!!

Simon, if I were to now take two of these that are showing the stiff blushing gene and breed back again to each other, what would happen? Would all of their fry exist blushers? Also, since I do not know if Romeo & Juliet are related, would you recommend inbreeding one more than fourth dimension.

Sorry only i more question!! What would happen if I bred one of these fry back to either Romeo or Juliet?

I will tell Romeo & Juliet you said prissy job!!! LOL

Simon Law · Feb 28, 2011

Fry from unrelated parents are called F1; fry from related parents (blood brother and sister) are called F2. Information technology doesn't matter how many generations of inbreeding they will still exist called F2.

If you take 2 of these with strong blushing and brood them together then 100% of the fry volition be blushing.

I would go and inbreed 1 more than generation but I wouldn't do any more than that for because of the increased run a risk of plain-featured fry and the heartbreak of euthanising them.

Back breeding with the parents would pose the same gamble of inbreeding problems, but you say Romeo and Juliet didn't express and then much Blushing? And so you would probably yield 75% of the total fry equally blushing and they volition all wait very similar to the parent you backbred it with.

btate617 · Feb 28, 2011

Fry from unrelated parents are called F1; fry from related parents (brother and sister) are called F2. It doesn't matter how many generations of inbreeding they will still be called F2.

I but want to add something with the using of F1, F2, etc....

You come across many people using these designations particularly with Angels lately, I have noticed it a lot with the bluish ones I believe they are being called Pinoy? starting out in Asia. To use these F1's and F2'due south is not correct. The but time a fish should be designated as F1, F2, etc in the hobby is to show how far from wild caught fish a certain batch of fish are.

F0 are wild defenseless, F1 would be fry from a wild defenseless pair. Every fourth dimension you were to spawn that wild caught pair, their fry would be F1 fish.
If you were to grow out some F1 fish and go a pair from that batch then spawn this new F1 pair, their fry would be F2. And so on and so on.
Well-nigh breeders will non designate fish by F2, meaning y'all volition not find fish as F7.

The designation of "F" when properly used has nothing to practice with spawning unrelated parents or spawning brother and sister. It is used to show how far removed a batch of fish are from being wild caught.
It seems this is mostly going on with new morphs of Angels, just it shouldn't be done. Truth be told, yous are advertizement something equally something it is not.
I see it often and really don't understand it, people are disruptive how many generations they have inbreed a fish with a designation that is used for wild caught fish.
Just my 2cents on it and why it should exist used.

Brian

Simon Law · Feb 28, 2011

Yes that'south true Brian. It's merely easier to infringe a term that's familiar to depict inbred and outbred fry as there is a noticeable divergence in vigour and vitality. Information technology's so long winded to explicate that yous have fabricated an attempt to outbreed your stock and that they will take less chance of developing health problems. The problem stems from trying to breed truthful i.eastward. its easier to produce pure black Angelfish from pairing siblings together than sourcing 2 unrelated(as much every bit they can be) pure blackness Angelfish. The breeders who take done the extra leg piece of work of doing so have no like shooting fish in a barrel way of explaining that their pure black Angelfish are more than hardy thus the borrowing of the term F1's.

Kathy Potts · Feb 28, 2011

Since I am thinking near possibly selling some of my Angels on the internet, I was just wondering how I should write upward the ad?

Simon Law · February 28, 2011

I think you should just say they are healthy, nifty looking Koi babies from stunning parents! No need to mention anything else. Equally Brian recommends - Genetic hybridisation Filial terminology (F0, F1, F2) is reserved for wild fish so it saves us needing to remember about all that!

Kathy Potts · Feb 28, 2011

I think you should just say they are healthy, peachy looking Koi babies from stunning parents! No demand to mention anything else. As Brian recommends - Genetic hybridisation Filial terminology (F0, F1, F2) is reserved for wild fish and so it saves us needing to think about all that!

I tin can most definitely live with that!!!!

Simon, have you ever shipped Angelfish?

Oh, and another question: What is the correct terminology to describe the size of the Angelfish?

btate617 · February 28, 2011

Yes that's truthful Brian. It's just easier to borrow a term that's familiar to describe inbred and outbred fry every bit in that location is a noticeable departure in vigour and vitality. It's and then long winded to explain that you lot accept made an endeavour to outbreed your stock and that they will have less take chances of developing health problems. The problem stems from trying to breed true i.eastward. its easier to produce pure black Angelfish from pairing siblings together than sourcing two unrelated(as much equally they can be) pure black Angelfish. The breeders who have done the extra leg piece of work of doing so have no easy manner of explaining that their pure black Angelfish are more than hardy thus the borrowing of the term F1's.

I shouldn't have said I don't understand, I don't understand their choice of terms I guess. Y'all have people who are serious almost breeding, and they decide to utilise the F designation which means the complete reverse of what they are after. In that I don't sympathize. The problem I have is the term that is familiar is used to describe fish that some people would adopt, like wilds, F1, F2 in the way it is meant to be used. Now people are throwing the same term on a bunch of inbred fish, Not bashing the colour morphs just basically that is all they are, inbred to enhance a trait.
They have the knowledge to come up with a manner to bring out desired traits simply they tin't come with their ain term for it is what gets me. Telephone call them generation X, or this batch has but been inbred 5 times, or anything other than "F". That'southward all. If a term is beingness used to have i significant, why make finding out what fish we have in the hobby even harder than it already is with all the hybrid out at that place, don't get mad at me if you lot are reading this and you confuse hybrid and inbred in my terminal statement, 2 dissimilar things.

I concur with Simon, they are Angels.
If yous want to add veil tail, or Pinoy, or jet-black (as examples) to make them sound better go for information technology--- or whatever trait you are going for, or believe/know they have.

I just don't agree with the F designation being used on Angel color morphs, obviously, as it has been lately.

Brian

Kathy Potts · Feb 28, 2011

I shouldn't have said I don't understand, I don't understand their selection of terms I guess. You accept people who are serious about breeding, and they decide to use the F designation which means the consummate reverse of what they are later. In that I don't understand. The problem I have is the term that is familiar is used to describe fish that some people would prefer, like wilds, F1, F2 in the way it is meant to be used. At present people are throwing the aforementioned term on a bunch of inbred fish, Not bashing the colour morphs but basically that is all they are, inbred to enhance a trait.
They have the knowledge to come up with a fashion to bring out desired traits but they can't come up with their ain term for it is what gets me. Call them generation X, or this batch has only been inbred 5 times, or anything other than "F". That's all. If a term is existence used to accept i significant, why brand finding out what fish we accept in the hobby fifty-fifty harder than it already is with all the hybrid out there, don't go mad at me if you lot are reading this and you lot confuse hybrid and inbred in my last statement, ii dissimilar things.
Brian

Ok, I am confused!!! What do I accept? Hybrids or inbred?

bolivianbaby · February 28, 2011

Ok, I am confused!!! What do I accept? Hybrids or inbred?

Angelfish aren't hybrids. Most fish are inbred to a certain extent to bring out detail traits. Inbreeding fish is commonly an accepted practice as long as the fish aren't existence inbred to a point where their health is at run a risk. Introducing "new blood" once in a while is a great fashion to prevent health issues.

As an angelfish owner and an possessor of fish from wild-caught parents, I accept to agree with non using the "F" terms with angelfish. If I see F1 angelfish, my first thought would be they were from wild caught parents-P. scalare.

To answer your question, Kathy-you have gorgeous, healthy angelfish that produce cute offspring. When you annunciate them, my best communication would be to annunciate them equally healthy, gorgeous angelfish with the characteristics that they show-i.e. blushing, koi, gilt, marbles, etc.

Simon Law · Feb 28, 2011

Yes Kathy! It all gets too confusing! I call back we shouldn't even bother thinking nearly inbred or any, as long as the fry are healthy and take no deformities and then allow'southward just telephone call them "good for you Angelfish with hearty appetites"!

Yes I ship Angelfish all the time - what would y'all like to know?

In the Great britain we give two measurements, body diameter then from top fin to lesser fin - tip to tip. Some people are lazy and just give the body bore size and that's it. I normally run into people in the Usa brand reference to coin sizes - don't include the fins just the body.

Danni · Feb 28, 2011

+1 to Brian...bang-up explanation. I was wondering the same thing when I saw it on another site selling fish. I always understood the F's as going back to wilds as well.
I didn't think it practical or should to domestics.

Kathy- I think you should go with what anybody said.
If you know the sex on the older ones, that would be a practiced selling point too. Many times people are looking for certain sexes of older fish instead of having to purchase a bunch and sort it out on their ain.
Might be something to consider on older ones.

darrellg1 · Mar 1, 2011

+i to Brian...great caption. I was wondering the same thing when I saw it on another site selling fish. I always understood the F's as going back to wilds as well.
I didn't think it applied or should to domestics.
Kathy- I think you lot should go with what everyone said.
If you lot know the sex on the older ones, that would be a good selling point every bit well. Many times people are looking for certain sexes of older fish instead of having to buy a bunch and sort information technology out on their own.
Might be something to consider on older ones.

I'k defo with dannI on this one knowing the sexes of angels is a much better sucess rate of selling as over here in the uk most people preffer the sexes equally they know a sex of angel already and want to pair them upwardly or they have lost an angel and desire to discover there fish a partner.
Ive institute when selling pairs or a paciffic sexual activity of angel yous will get a lot more £-$ for them

Kathy Potts · Mar 1, 2011

Delight let me say that I am most thankful to all of you that have helped me out and that have broadened my horizons with experience, knowledge and understanding!!!
When people take the fourth dimension to sit down and assist someone else, in my book, that person is very special!!! No one makes you help some other person. But when that kindness and generosity is put forth, the world becomes a improve place!!!!

And then each and every one of y'all that give of yourself, please know that I practice appreciate it and am indeed thankful!!!!!!!

Danni · Mar 3, 2011

Awwww nosotros know you are. I am too.

When Do Angelfish Fry Babies Start Showing Their Colors

Angelfish Fry From Selective Breeding

Kathy Potts

darrellg1

Kathy Potts

darrellg1

toosie

Kathy Potts

Plumkin

darrellg1

Simon Constabulary

Kathy Potts

Simon Law

btate617

Simon Law

Kathy Potts

Simon Law

Kathy Potts

btate617

Kathy Potts

bolivianbaby

Simon Law

Danni

darrellg1

Kathy Potts

Danni

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